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Fa Xian
Furious Timewasters
32
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Posted - 2016.01.05 19:47:48 -
[1] - Quote
New players are attracted by the look of the game. And the idea of giant space battles against other players.
The game delivers on the looks. It does not encourage people to enjoy player versus player content.
When you are trivially erased from space by people you can't even see or interact with at a gate when you were just trying to move around, you get turned off.
When you have to do something else - mine, mission, explore - to pay for the privilege of enjoying PVP time, you get turned off.
When giant well organised gangs of people ruthlessly control vast swaths of space that are mostly empty, you get turned off.
When you can only contribute to a team as disposable tackle, if you can even find anyone to interact with in a fleet, you get turned off.
Recently, the game made some brilliant changes to exploration. They made it into a game. A game that keeps you in space to "provide content" for others. Mining needs the same kind of buff. Missions are good, but should be more dynamic - it should be impossible to google a solution. At least randomize what spawns in what positions. Basically missions should be replaced with DED type rewards.
But want to get more new people? Start them in a Gnosis. Replace the Gnosis - which comes pre-fit with modules - either a given number of times (10+) or in an unlimited number of times over a trial period (first 60 days). Give them a simple canned fit based on a simple choice each go - "Will you be doing missions, pvp, exploration, mining, or trading?" = different fits. Perhaps a tutorial mission in each.
Like the saying goes - "First dose is free"
Show them higher end content. Then ask them to work a treadmill to get it. |
Fa Xian
Furious Timewasters
34
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Posted - 2016.01.08 16:12:12 -
[2] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I have no doubt that people who advocate hand holding have the best intentions, but it's really the worse thing you can do.
Then you are limited to the hardcore player, the one whose entertainment comes from suffering through.
I'm reminded of the design priorities of Everquest. "Make it hard; they love hard." What happened there?
WoW destroyed it.
A tiny minority of people find suffering a form of entertainment. It's not a good plan. It's niche.
What you need is a way to lead people into deeper game play. A good sandbox - say, Minecraft - does this be pressuring you, not punishing. Night comes... zombies. Run, fight. Build a house to be safe at night. Find odd bits; experiment with them. Look for other odd bits; explore to find them. Build a better nicer house, armor, weapons.
Here, you're not really given much of anything to lead into it. You're shown an amazing video of fleet actions with comms and... log in to no one to talk to, no one to fleet with - actively hostile players looking to kill or exploit. Find odd things and experiment? Nope - canned, non-variable parts you can't even build without blueprints you can't even get. Fight other players? Nope - you've got a tiny ship with no skills and the system incentivizes fights that aren't interesting or fair due to loss paranoia, real costs.
The story of EVE could have been cool fights. Instead, you get gate camps and ganks. |
Fa Xian
Furious Timewasters
34
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Posted - 2016.01.08 17:27:50 -
[3] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:All your points are things people do everyday in EVE, so why is it not working for you? And why are you not doing anything about it?
This isn't about me. I'm enjoying the game as is and find it fine. My complaints - suggestions, really - aren't at all related to new player experiences.
The observations I make above are about how I believe the game alienates new players. It is, fundamentally, a dull game. You start off very slow, with nothing and no one. You can do little and are shown less.
A revised NPE would do more to show someone with 0-1M sp what life is like at 20M sp. It's not hand holding. It's advertising.
Imagine starting off as a pilot-in-training aboard a battlecruiser. Suppose your empire of choice is training you. This ship is capable, durable and freely replaced in total an unlimited number of times in your characters first 30 days of life. It does things you cannot do - cloaks, hacks, fights. Your quests show you missions, wormholes, faction war, null - even manufacturing.
It lets the new player see what the medium future holds. It entices.
That's an NPE that sells. Not lonely frigates just doing missions in high sec. |
Fa Xian
Furious Timewasters
34
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Posted - 2016.01.08 17:33:51 -
[4] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:What you describe is a HOBBYIST, and yes, perseverance is a required trait.
Interest is. Not perseverance. People don't have hobbies to suffer. A hobby is not endured. It is enjoyed.
Quote:Most gamers don't have the ability to persevere beyond 23 hours...
Most experiences don't merit more than 23 hours of enjoyment - they lack perceivable rewards.
Quote:So the choice is not hardcore vs casual...
Not a binary distinction.
Quote:I don't understand the compunction some people have to see everything turned into stale sameness. Why not let EVE be EVE and let these other games cater to those who don't like EVE?
I don't want EVE to change much. I just want it to not die. To do so, it needs new people...
Likely nothing needs to change. It's survived this long completely static, right? |
Fa Xian
Furious Timewasters
34
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Posted - 2016.01.08 17:36:43 -
[5] - Quote
Fa Xian wrote:That's an NPE that sells. Not lonely frigates just doing missions in high sec.
Everyone's favorite story of EVE is PVP related. Find a way to show the new person PVP. Win or lose. |
Fa Xian
Furious Timewasters
34
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Posted - 2016.01.08 18:33:30 -
[6] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:That's actually desperation. Desperation (in this case "I like EVE so please don't die") clouds judgement, it makes things that are bad seem like they are good.
Lol. I'm not being very clear.
My play style is made much better when there are fewer and fewer people. I don't like training new players. I don't hang out with others. Your happiness is irrelevant to me. I'm the least desperate person in EVE. If the whole thing went under tomorrow, I'd not really care.
I'm not making a call from passion. I'm looking at what others say and suggesting based on that. I see people like PVP fights; find a way to put them into it. I see people like meaningful ships: show them one.
Quote:They've spent years on the NPE, they've tried to funnel people towrads other people, towards pvp and so on. It doesn't work, mainly because the underlying assumption ( thatyou can 'funnel' people into things they won't do naturally) doesn't work.
I'm not talking about a funnel. I'm talking about a trial. Not one thing. All things.
The current NPE is not what many like. Frigate missions with hand holding in high?
All I'm suggesting is to show people the game. Not PVE in high. It's pretty minimal change really. I'd rather they spent time on things I like, but hey... whatever. |
Fa Xian
Furious Timewasters
34
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Posted - 2016.01.08 18:39:31 -
[7] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It's the same old disproved "people are mean to new players so new players quit" lie that the bleeding hearts tell themselves to justify their beliefs.
My experience, anecdotal it might be, is that people quit because they get bored. I've never seen someone quit because they were blown up. I've seen many run the boring, repetitive, simplistic missions in high and quit. I've seen a fair number in null large blocs quit for the same reason - controlled, limited game play.
Boredom gets people to quit. It's just a game.
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Fa Xian
Furious Timewasters
37
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Posted - 2016.01.13 16:01:30 -
[8] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
Give an example of what you mean by "active game systems".
Exploration hacking mini game.
Check out mining in Galaxy On Fire 2;
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/538192-galaxy-on-fire-2-ipad-screenshot-mining-mini-game-try-to-keep.png
How about mining has an active interface? Instead of watching a cycling module, play a mini-game. Pay no attention to it? Same as current yield. Pay attention? +10% - +20% yield.
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Fa Xian
Furious Timewasters
37
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Posted - 2016.01.13 16:06:02 -
[9] - Quote
Fa Xian wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
Give an example of what you mean by "active game systems".
Exploration hacking mini game.
This really shouldn't be underestimate in terms of brilliant EVE design.
It engages instead of making you wait. It distracts, making you PVP content for others. It scales. It uses player skill.
I suspect container spew was a prototype for mining ideas - it would have made more sense there.
Missions are already active.
Trading and manufacturing could use some help. |
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